Intro headache

[Ceretrea]

I posted this on FB but I'll put it here aswell. Thank you Sarah for your advice by the way, its been much appreciated :)

Background is this:- Everyone bonded so quickly when they were all intro'ed that they went straight into a bare Freddy. All fine for a few days and I started adding stuff thinking 'hooray that was easy'. Wrong! Proper fighting took place, in the bed or no...scuffles, wrestling, rolling about latched onto each others fur its was horrible. Sarah advised popping them into a smaller cage and starting again with the intro.

So the girls have been in the small FOP since Monday night and were getting on alright. But just when I thought I had cracked it...Rose and Poppy vs Lily, Lupin and Tulip all over again, although not as bad as when they were in the freddy. Mostly when they have a bit of food, the other just walks right up and tries to take it. Squabbles ensue. Then I'm still getting the whole rolling over and wrestling thing which I don't understand because a minute before the food went in, they were all cuddled up together, a picture of bliss *scratches head*.

I need to know if I move the intro on and try adding stuff or wait until this has calmed down. Are these squabble something to worry about? Its really disturbing hearing the amount of squeaking going on in the cage in the evening, I'm worried someones going to get hurt..plus its hardly the picture of harmony I'm used to So I figure I must be doing something wrong?

Solo gets squeaked at when he tries his luck with the ladies, but thats not too bad at all...and poor old Daisy and Primrose are keeping well out of it.
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[Sproggie14]

I wouldn't move things on until you have them living happily at this stage I think. If there are a small number of main offenders you could try separating them out on their own for a while so they can bond. I did that recently when Edie and Viv were being utter cows to some new arrivals. I left the newbies and the well behaved existing ones together and removed the trouble makers for a few days then reintroduced them all again somewhere small and neutral. This gave the new ones a chance to bond with the others and brought the troublemakers down a peg or two. They were all fine after that.
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Sarah

[Ceretrea]

Remove them out on their own? I can try this. It 'seems' like its Lupin and Tulip mostly with Rose mainly being on the butt end of things...so remove Lupin and Tulip to another cage?
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[alba]

I think you should leave them for a few days and see if they settle. If nonoe is getting seriously hurt (no blood), then they just might need some time to work out who's boss.

[Sproggie14]

[Ceretrea]

Okay, well....the whole cage just erupted with either Tulip or Lupin (brown spotty blur) hanging onto Roses back end...the screeching was awful. Its hard to tell if there is blood because Rose is a long haired black and tan, her tail is really dark so its not obvious. But the noise was horrendous.

Tulip and Lupin duly evicted and when I put them back I'll be sure to hang on for a while to make sure the sort the ranking out properly before I try adding stuff.

Thanks guys
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[racingmouse]

This is mainly why I have Lulu living alone as she would`nt tolerate even baby/young mice, although she`s a bit of a kidder and is really more of an introvert than a dominator, but she still likes to throw her intentions around.

Kat, I feel you did the right thing removing the two who were being nasty. You don`t want your quieter mice stressed by this. It`s not worth making them ill. Are the newbies young mice or adults? My experience with intros is`nt brilliant, but I don`t intend to introduce any new mice now until I`m down to two females and I know one is either on her way out or both are over 16 months old and showing their age and even then, only introducing baby mice into their world. Adult to adult seems to be when trouble flares the most. Even having older mice is`nt plain sailing, but if you know their temperaments and how their minds work, it`s easier to fathom how they will react to a newcomer.

I was very lucky a few weeks ago that I had Aggie, who will be two in June and introduced to three, five month olds who were (and still are) a little nuts! Aggie has always been laid back with no attitude, so I landed lucky I suppose on this occassion.

Your lot sound as though real ball fighting is going on and you don`t need that. I know it shoots my nerves to bits when this happens and it`s not easy to deal with.

Alba is also right in saying that confining them all to a smaller cage (I use a Rody tank) should work wonders. NO toys until you feel one item can be added to watch their reactions to it and to each other. Once this passes the test, you can slowly move forward, but slowly is the word.
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Of all the people I know, my mice are the most...human.

[Ceretrea]

I have a mix of ages so Rose and Poppy are the youngest at nearly 3 months now I think. Then Lupin and Tulip are older but still little at 4 months. So only a month between.

A bit of squeaking this morning between Solo and Lily...trying it on I feel bless him. But otherwise peaceful with the two 'offenders' not there. I'll leave them out another night and try intro-ing again tomorrow.
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[Ceretrea]

Tulip and Lupin where on their own til this morning. I introed everyone back intot he carrier and left them there for a bit and now they are all back in the FOP.

So far so good *crosses fingers*
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[racingmouse]

Great news Kat. Keep them in the FOP for as long as you need to. I always feel tall, larger cages are what spark territorial behaviour. If they are all on the one level, it does`nt seem to kick off as bad.

One of my young girls (Dolly) had a wee go at my old lady last night. She had a good talking to because Aggie is such a quiet little old thing that I won`t have her bullied. Dolly seemed to get the message from mum and things settled again. It`s just something you need to watch because they can be all lovey for a week and then one can start to rock the boat.
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Of all the people I know, my mice are the most...human.

[Ceretrea]

Tried a bed in there last night....ooooo nooooo....took it out when I saw Rose in a corner and poppy being booted out by Lupin.

Without it they seem to be fine at the mo, so I'll leave it a night and try again. Gonna be softly softly for this group.
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Freddy 2:- currently home to Lupin, Lily, Tulip and Solo, HH home to Rose and Poppy / Foster Mum to:-Patrick

And the ratties:- Dibbler, Greebo, Scraps, Errol, Vimes, Teppic and Mort. Bella, Celeste and Mimi

[zany_toon]

I really hope that you get on okay with this Ceretrea. I know that I've had no luck with intros and I'm dreading if something happens to either Daisy or Fidget (my two oldest girls) because they wouldn't even take too the babies that I introduced them too - they tried to tear poor Bitsy apart I'm just glad that I was there to tell them off and get them off her, especially as she was only 5 weeks old!!
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Theodore(cat) and the Furry Terrors!!
R.I.P. Blackie, Goldie, Sammie, Tiny, Peek, Boo, Add, Sally, Tails, Nibbler, Chip, Marx, Frootie, Tootie

[Ceretrea]